The Ancient Tradition

00:00

Music

00:09

You’re listening to the Ancient Tradition. A Wonk Media Production. Music provided by Joseph McDade. He is your host, Dr. Jack Logan.

00:25

Welcome to the ancient tradition. I am your host, Jack Logan. Glad to have all of you listening in. I really hope that you’ve been learning a lot. If this is your first time listening to the program, you will learn a whole bunch and we extend to you a hearty welcome. On today’s program, we’re gonna pick up where we left off in our last episode. In that episode, we examined several ancient accounts that

00:54

attested that in the beginning the Earth wasn’t originally located where we find it today in the Milky Way Galaxy. Instead, those ancient accounts taught that the Earth was initially created and resided in very close proximity to heaven. Heaven and Earth were so close, in fact, that the ancients described the relationship as an intimate embrace.

01:22

Today’s episode is titled Tierra in Ilo Tempere, and that’s Latin for the Earth at that time. Our favorite Romanian scholar, Mircea Eliade, used this phrase to describe that time when Earth was in very close proximity to heaven. As you can imagine, heaven and earth being in such close proximity to one another had very important implications

01:52

for the nature of the earth itself. And in this episode, we’re gonna examine what the ancients taught about the nature of Tierra in Ilo Tempere. You’ll probably hear several things in the episode today that sound familiar. It’s not super earth shattering, but it is theologically, and I wanna stress from the outset how theologically significant this time period is in the overarching theology of the ancient tradition. And I also wanna stress how

02:22

What we see during this time period reconfirms so many of the theological principles that the ancients taught, which we’ve discussed up to this point on the program. Hopefully you learned something new about this time period that you didn’t previously know. Maybe you will, maybe you won’t, but it should give you a better understanding of how this time period fits into the larger theological picture that we’re beginning to develop.

02:50

I don’t know about you, but it’s pretty darn amazing to me that even when we limit ourselves just to the stubborn bits that we find around the world, that we are already starting to see a fully coherent theology beginning to form. It’s making sense and I find this amazing. According to most of the accounts, this time period is described in paradisal terms.

03:20

Paradise on Earth. On page 255 of Eliade’s really important article titled The Yearning for Paradise in Primitive Tradition, it was published in the Journal de Dallas, Eliade writes, quote, we encounter the paradise myth all over the world in more or less complex forms. Besides the Paramount Paradisal Note,

03:49

it always has a certain number of characteristic elements. In today’s episode, we’re gonna look at those characteristic elements. We’re gonna look at them one by one as they’re described by the ancients themselves in their writings. For the first characteristic, we need to turn to the ancient Egyptians. In ancient Egypt, the Egyptians referred to this time period when heaven was close to earth as Zeptepe.

04:19

According to James P. Allen, Zeph-Tepi translates as the first occasion or the first time, which refers to the time of the creation before it was separated from heaven. Ancient Egyptian texts refer to this time period with great frequency. It’s very important. R.T. Rundle Clark in his book, Myth and Symbol in Ancient Egypt, on pages 263 to 264. This is what Clark says. He says, quote,

04:50

Zeptebi, the first time, stretched from the stirring of the high god in the primeval waters to the settling of Horus on the throne. All proper Egyptian myths relate events or manifestations of this epic. Anything whose existence or authority had to be justified or explained must be referred to the first time.

05:19

This was true of natural phenomena, rituals, royal insignia, the plans of temples, et cetera. So what Clark is saying is that the time period before heaven and earth was separated, Zeptepe was so important to the ancient Egyptians that they tied everything they did after this period directly back to this period, to Zeptepe.

05:45

This will be especially evident when we get into ancient Egyptian temple ritual and temple architecture. We’ll see that very clearly. So what is one of the main things the ancient Egyptians tell us about Zeptepe, about this time period? On the propylon of the temple of Khonsu at Karnak, if you’re not familiar with what a propylon is, it’s that large monumental gateway that we see outside of.

06:10

Egyptian temples and some other temples. It’s kind of like the Arc de Triomphe that you see in Paris. We find the following inscription and this inscription is rather late. It’s dated to the Ptolemaic period around the third century BC. The inscription reads, quote, Law was established in their time. Now, there here refers to the primeval gods, to the time of the primeval gods.

06:39

Maat came down from heaven to earth in their age and united herself with those on the earth.

06:50

El Kikosi who studied this inscription writes on page 206 of his article ideas about the fallen state of the world in Egyptian religion writes quote it was thus in primeval times that Ma’at who played the role of the law of the world in Egyptian philosophy descended upon the earth so

07:17

The first thing that the ancient gypsons tell us about Zeptepe, number one, is that Maat descended upon the earth during this time. It’s absolutely critical that we start our discussion of the first time with this understanding. Cause if you recall in episode number 28, Lord of Maat, King of Zedek, and if you haven’t heard that episode, I highly recommend giving it a listen cause you’re going to get a much, much fuller understanding of what the Egyptians

07:44

and the ancient Hebrews meant by Maat and Zedek, then I have time to cover today. We established in that episode though that Maat fundamentally means to go in a straight direction. In Latin, the word for straight is rectus, which in late Latin is rectitudo, or as we would say it in English, rectitude, meaning rightness. And we often refer to this concept as righteousness.

08:14

The rightness or righteousness the ancient Egyptians are talking about here is actually righteousness on a cosmic level. It’s the notion that the very foundation of the cosmos itself is governed by a principle of rightness. So we’re not just talking about an ethical system of morality here. We’re talking about a concept with profound cosmic implications, which we’re gonna see here with Zeph-Tepi.

08:43

Ma’at’s the notion that the very fabric of the cosmos, including every single thing in it, everybody and everything, operates according to a grand principle or law of rightness. And that it’s by upholding or adhering to or following or doing rightness that any type. And the ancient Egyptians mean any type of true order is established. Be that

09:12

order, political order, social order, familial order, marital order, or the order of the natural material world itself, which is huge conceptually. Only adherence to the cosmic law of Ma’at or Tzedek can produce order. Rebellion against Ma’at produces disorder.

09:42

political disorder, social disorder, familial disorder, marital disorder, and the disorder of the natural world itself. You have to capture that understanding of Ma’at and Tzedek. The ancient Egyptians referred to this disorder as Isfet, which means chaos or injustice or violence or to do evil.

10:08

So when the ancient Egyptians tell us that Ma’at, the law upon which the very fabric of heaven itself was produced, a realm of perfect order, descended upon the earth during this time, it follows that we should see a much higher manifestation of order on the earth then, in its myriad forms and expressions than we do now, which is exactly what the ancients tell us. In fact,

10:38

Another inscription on the Khansu Propeplon tells us that during Zeph-Tepi, the first time, quote, there was no Isfet in the land. Remember Isfet is the Egyptian word for chaos. It’s the opposite of order, the order that can only be established by upholding Ma’at. So for the ancients to say that during this time there’s no Isfet in the land, we’re to understand that order in all of its forms

11:07

on the earth in the first time. And let’s not forget that the beloved son commanded the chaotic elements to order themselves into this world after he triumphed over the dragon, the author and producer of all chaos. It’s really important to point out that the beloved son destroyed the dragon, which means that not a drop of disorder contaminated the original creation of the earth.

11:38

In the pyramid texts, in pyramid text 249, a text that’s found in King Unus’s pyramid, the creator Atum tells us he used rightness to remove disorder and to create the world. Atum says, quote, I have come from the Isle of Flame. Now the Isle of Flame refers to the birth of the universe of the earth. Having put Ma’at in it.

12:07

place of disorder. So Ma’at, rightness, destroys disorder. He’s telling us that he placed righteousness in the primordial waters in the place of disorder and that it was that rightness that initiated the creation of this world. And we have to start here understanding that Ma’at descended on the earth when it was close to heaven.

12:38

The second thing that the ancients tell us about the initial state of the earth is that number two, time as we know it, did not exist then. If you gave episode number 30, the grand primordial singularity, listen, then you probably aren’t at all surprised by this. It’s in complete conformity with what we saw there and with what we’d expect. If you recall in that episode, we established that the Holy of Holies, where God dwells in the center of the cosmos is

13:07

beyond time, it’s outside the limitations of space and time. God dwells in eternity. There is no terrestrial notion of time there. And since the earth, as the ancients tell us, was in such close proximity to heaven, where God dwelt in the Holy of Holies, then we would naturally expect that the earth would take on the properties of timelessness. In fact, it could not be otherwise.

13:36

which I’ll explain in just a second. Mercea Eliade on page 261 of that article I just referred to, yearning for paradise, notes that shaman, when they richly ascend to heaven, enter eternity. He writes, quote, “‘For the shaman in the state of ecstasy, “‘this world, this fallen world, “‘which according to modern terminology “‘is governed by the laws of time and history, “‘no longer exists.'”

14:05

The shaman can only temporarily abolish the rupture between heaven and earth. In other words, for the shaman, the world that we now live in, the one that is separated from heaven, is subject to time. But when the shaman ascends the ladder that temporarily, quote, abolishes the rupture between heaven and earth, he enters eternity where time no longer exists.

14:35

What this suggests is that time, as we understand it, is a function of disorder. Time only seems to appear where the awful sea dragon has access to that realm. In realms where the dragon does not have access, where the dragon is cut off or restricted, where the fabric of the cosmos is completely ordered,

15:05

there is no time, only eternity. And since God conquered the dragon and perfectly upholds Ma’at and thereby lives in a state of perfect order, he thusly lives where there is no time, he lives in eternity. And remember, time is a necessary requisite of physical entropy. The second law of

15:33

thermodynamics states that in a closed system, over time, the elements move irreversibly from a state of order to disorder. Wikipedia says this of the relationship between entropy and time. Quote, entropy is one of the few quantities in the physical sciences that require a particular direction for time.

16:03

which is disorder and chaos of an isolated system increases. The implications here are mind blowing because what this means is that where there is no time, there is no entropy. And since God dwells where there is no time, nothing in his realm is subject to entropy. A second ago, I stated that the earth in close proximity to God

16:33

would have to have been timeless too. Okay, but why? Well, because had the earth been subject to time, this would have meant that the earth would have been subject to disorder. And disorder is the antithesis of God. Disorder cannot survive where God is. Disorder is the manifestation of rebellion against God. Consequently,

17:01

It would have been impossible for an earth that resided so close to God, intimately close, like a cosmic embrace, to contain, as the ancient Egyptians called it, Isfet, chaos or disorder. Had it, God would not have truly been a God. Back to the earlier mind-blowing point. Since God dwells where there is no time, nothing in his realm is subject to entropy.

17:31

And guess what? That’s exactly how the ancients describe the physical state of the first time.

17:41

Number three, the ancients tell us that the first time was completely free from physical entropy. In particular, they tell us that sickness and disease and aging and death, all of the products of thermodynamic entropy did not exist then. So let’s take a look at a few of the ancient texts. In a Sumerian text titled Enki and Ninhursag, we read a creation story.

18:11

It’s set in a place in the East where the sun rises, named Dilmun, where there’s no disease and no aging. And in this text, Anki, the Lord of the Earth, lays with the mother goddess Ninhursag in Dilmun. So note how we’re getting the heaven and earth in an intimate embrace motif playing here. The text reads,

18:36

and I’ll be reading the translation published by the Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature. Starting in line five, it reads, he, and he refers to Enki, laid her, which refers to Ninhursag, down all alone in Dilmun, in the place where Enki had lain down with his spouse. And then line 20 goes on to describe this place. Now listen to how diseases and sickness can’t

19:05

present themselves in Dilmun. Quote, no eye diseases said there, I am the eye disease. No headache said there, I am the headache. Now listen to what the text says about aging in Dilmun. No old woman belonging to it said there, I am an old woman. No old man belonging to it said there, I am an old man.

19:35

We clearly see here that in Dilmun, there was no disease and no aging. In Greece, in the Greek poet Hesiod’s poem, Works and Days, we get a similar thing. There we read of a golden age at the dawn of creation where no one grew old and no one’s limbs failed them. The text reads, and this is the A.N. Athanasakis translation starting in line 117. It reads, quote.

20:05

At first, the immortals who dwell on Olympus created a golden race of mortal men. They lived like gods. Line 121. Helpless old age did not exist. And with limbs of unsagging vigor, they enjoyed the feasts out of evil’s reach. In this text, Hesiod, like we saw in Mesopotamia.

20:34

tells us that at the dawn of time during a golden age, the people did not age, their limbs did not weaken. The people during this time were not subject to the disorder of physical entropy. If we go to India and the Vaya Purana, a Hindu scripture, the period after the creation is referred to as the Sucha Yuga. In English, Sucha Yuga means the age of truth and sincerity.

21:03

This time period is also referred to as the Krita Yuga, which means the accomplished or completed age or the age of righteousness. The time when people performed pious acts.

21:18

In the Mahabharata, a Hindu epic, it states this of the Age of Righteousness, quote, “‘The Krita Yuga,’ which is the name the Hindu give this period, was without disease. There was no lessening with the years.” The Native American Maidu people of California give us a similar description of this period in one of their creation accounts. We find this description on page 83 of David Leming’s

21:47

the Oxford Companion to World Mythology. And while you’re listening to this, see if you can’t recognize some of the other stubborn bits that we’ve discussed on the program. The Maidu people tell us the following, quote, they say that at the beginning of time, when there was only darkness and the primal waters, two beings arrived in a raft, turtle and a creator figure called Earth Initiate.

22:15

Okay, this is not directly connected to today’s subject, but I’ve got to stop here and point out how in this Native American account, the creator arrives on the Primordial Waters on a raft. Now, what is this raft? Well, this raft is the Native American cultural expression of the Ark. Yes, the Ark. Now,

22:42

I’m not talking directly about Noah’s ark here. I’m talking about the predecessor to Noah’s ark, because we’re not talking about Noah here. We’re talking about the earth initiate in this account. I’m talking about the creator’s ark, God’s ark, God’s ark that was built so that he could float on the Primordial waters, the ark that provided a place for him to dwell on the waters. Remember how we read in the ancient texts that when God

23:10

looked out over the Primordial Waters, he found nowhere to rest. So the first thing he did was create a place on the waters where he could rest. Well, in this account, that’s the raft. This raft represents his place to rest. This raft is the Native American expression of the creator’s temple on the Primordial Waters. The Mesopotamian Apsu.

23:41

This is also the same idea we get when the Sumerian god Enki names his temple in Eridu the Apsu because the temple sits on the primordial waters. This is the same reason in ancient Egypt, the sun god Ray travels across the night sky, where live the waters on a bark. And this is the same reason why among the ancient Hebrews, the Ark of the Covenant,

24:07

was housed in the Holy of Holies of the Mosaic Tabernacle and King Solomon’s temple. And yes, it is the same symbolism that’s used in the account of Noah’s Ark. This symbolism tells us that Noah’s Ark was supposed to be understood as God’s temple floating on the waters too. And I’m gonna develop this idea a lot more when we discuss the Ark in ancient Egypt and the world flood. Among all of

24:37

and the bark represent God’s temple on the Primordial Waters.

24:45

Okay, I’m getting a bit sidetracked, but sometimes this stuff just blows me away. There we are in North America among a Native American tribe in California, getting the same story of the boat, holding the creator on the primordial waters as we get in ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia and Israel and India and things like this have me convinced that these accounts were derived from a single original religious tradition in deep

25:14

antiquity. All right back to the mydews account of the first time it reads quote they say that at the beginning of time when there was only darkness and the primal waters two beings arrived in a raft turtle and a creator figure called earth initiate so the one who initiates the earth which we would call the creator these two preceded to create the world

25:44

the sun and stars, dry land, trees and other things. Meanwhile, Earth Initiate went on working, making a perfect world, even teaching the people to jump in a certain lake to renew their youth when they happen to get old. When Coyote came to this paradise to visit them, the people told him how wonderful life was.

26:10

how they could spend their time eating and sleeping and how they could always be young. From this Maidu account, we learned that the people who inhabited the earth right after the creation did not age. They experienced eternal youth. From these accounts, we see that during the golden age, right after the creation of the earth, the people didn’t get sick or age or die. And this makes perfect theological sense when we understand

26:40

Maat or Tzedek, the cosmic law of rightness that underpins the fabric of the cosmos. For this law dictates that those who perfectly uphold rightness are imbued with the power to impose order on chaos, right down to the subatomic particles. God

27:03

is a god precisely because he perfectly upholds rightness and because of that he has the power to impose order, to order everything in his kingdom right down to the subatomic particles. He has the power to prevent or reverse thermodynamic entropy, the disorder of subatomic particles caused by the awful dragon.

27:33

when the earth was very close to God, were not subject to the disordering effects of physical entropy. So they did not get sick or age or die. In fact, since they were in such close proximity to God, like I mentioned, it could not have been otherwise, else the God to which they were close would not have truly been a God.

28:01

Along these same lines, the ancients tell us that during the Golden Age, there was no physical pain, which is also not surprising since pain is a biological signal of physical disorder in the body. A broken bone, an abscessed tooth, a burned finger. According to the Cosmic Law of Rightness, all types of physical disorder, all types

28:30

are brought about by the awful dragon who rebelled and continues to rebel against rightness. Wherever he has access to a particular realm, physical disorder becomes a key component of that realm. Since he does not have access to God’s realm, there can be no physical disorder or entropy there. And consequently,

29:00

no pain. And that’s exactly what the ancients tell us. In ancient Egypt on the propylon of the temple of Kamsu that I mentioned earlier, it says this of Zeptepe the first time. Quote, Thorn did not prick in the time of the primeval gods. Here we see that during Zeptepe, Thorns did not cause pain. In the Greek

29:30

Hesiod says this of pain during the Golden Age in lines 120 and 121. It says, quote, they lived like gods carefree in their hearts shielded from pain and misery. As we would expect those who lived during the Golden Age were quote shielded from pain. There was no physical pain caused by entropy when the earth was in heaven’s embrace.

30:00

The fourth and perhaps the most salient feature the first time is the ancient description of the earth as a pristine natural paradise, an expanse of breathtaking beauty and boundless abundance around more flowers bloomed in vibrant splendor. Life thrived in its fullest expression and fertility was a natural ever-present force.

30:27

The propylon of the Temple of Khansu in ancient Egypt describes Zeph-Tepi like this, quote, there was an abundance on the earth, stomachs were full and there was no lean year in the two lands. In ancient Mesopotamia, in the text Enki and in Herzog, Dilmun is described as, quote, pure is Dilmun land, virginal is Dilmun land.

30:55

Pristine is Dilmun land. That place was virginal. That place was pristine. In Greece in Works and Days, Hesiod describes the Golden Age in line 25 as, quote, the barley giving earth asked for no toil to bring forth a rich and plentiful harvest. In Greece,

31:19

in Plato’s Critias, lines 113e to 114e, 115a, 117b, and 118d. Plato describes the grove where the god Poseidon dwells in these terms. Poseidon as a god easily organized the central island. Note how we’re talking about an island

31:49

So we’re getting the earth coming out of the primordial waters motif here and caused all kinds of food to grow in sufficient quantities from the soil. Everything aromatic the earth produces today in the way of shoots and roots and shrubs or gums exuded by flowers or fruits was produced and supported by the island then. Any water which overflowed was channeled to the Grove of Poseidon.

32:19

where all the various species of trees grew to be beautiful and extraordinarily tall thanks to the fertility of the soil. Plato continues this description of the Grove of Poseidon between lines 271C and 272C of his work, The Statesman. Quote, they had an abundance of fruits from trees and many other plants, not growing through cultivation.

32:47

but because the earth sent them up of its own accord. In Hebrew scripture in the Song of Solomon, chapter four, the author compares his beloved to the earthly paradise, which he describes in terms of its lush beauty. Verses 12 to 15 read, and this comes from the King James Version. Quote, a garden enclosed is my sister, my spouse.

33:15

Thy plants are an orchard of pomegranates with pleasant fruits, campfire with spikenard, spikenard and saffron, calimus and cinnamon, with all trees of frankincense, myrrh and aloes, with all the chief spices, a fountain of gardens, a well of living waters and streams from Lebanon.

33:40

There’s a lot I could say about these verses, but what I want you to note in these verses is how the author associates the earthly paradise with a beautiful garden. A garden that contains calimus, cinnamon, and myrrh. Do you remember where we’ve seen those ingredients before? We saw those ingredients in the book of Exodus 30 verse 22, because those are the key ingredients in the anointing oil.

34:10

which was a temple rite. We also see in those verses, spikenard and frankincense, which were also used in temple rites, which is just more evidence that the garden within the earthly paradise was a temple. And don’t miss the interplay here in the Song of Solomon between the beautiful physical abundance in the garden and the beautiful spiritual abundance that comes from God in his temple.

34:40

In China, the Taoist sage, now Taoism is akin to Ma’at and Cedic. Suangzu, who lived around the 4th century BC, wrote in a book known as Suangzu of an age which he refers to as the age of perfect virtue when, quote, the grass and trees grew luxuriant and long.

35:09

In Mesoamerica, the K’iche Maya write in the Popol Vuh, the chronicle of their sacred stories, this of the earth after the creation. Chapter one of part two of the Popol Vuh reads, quote, They were filled with joy because they had found a beautiful land full of pleasures, abundant in ears of yellow corn and ears of white corn and abundant also in potoxity. Now that’s a tropical

35:39

and cacao and innumerable, and then it lists a whole bunch of tropical fruits and honey. There was an abundance of delicious food. There were foods of every kind, small and large foods, small plants and large plants. And let’s not forget the Australian Aboriginal account of the first time that we talked about in our first and sixth episodes.

36:05

This time is known among the Aboriginals as the Every When. I love the name that they give it because it basically means eternal time, the Every When. And they sometimes refer to this time as the time of the ancestors. Anthropologists have referred to this as the Dream Time. In the account that we covered in the sixth episode, the Aboriginal peoples of New South Wales told us that during the Dream Time, quote,

36:35

in perfusion. Along with these paradisal descriptions, the ancients tell us that the first time was characterized by a lack of toil or a lack of difficult labor. The people who lived during this time didn’t have to toil for food. Food was produced in abundance by the earth itself.

36:58

Plato between lines 271c and 272c of his writing, the statesman notes that people living during this time had quote, a life without toil, so much leisure available to them.

37:16

That very same idea is implied in the Bible in the Genesis account, where we learn that after Adam partook of the fruit of the tree of good and evil, that he would have to toil for his food. In Genesis chapter three, verse 19, God tells Adam, and this is the King James version, quote, “‘In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, “’till thou return unto the ground.'”

37:45

So here God tells Adam, who had just partaken of the fruit, that from that moment forward, he’d have to work and toil for his bread. And he’d have to do that until he died. We actually get quite a bit of information out of this passage. God is essentially telling Adam that in the moment he partook of the fruit, physical entropy took effect in the world.

38:11

God’s super clear on this point. He tells Adam that from that point forward, he would have to toil and he would die. Two things that do not exist in a realm free from physical entropy. What this means is that when Adam and Eve partake of the fruit, the earth had to have moved away from God’s direct presence and influence. According to the Cosmic Law of Rightness, this had to have occurred.

38:40

which is exactly what the ancients tell us over and over and over again. In accounts all over the globe, the ancients tell us that the bond between heaven and earth was severed, severed. Remember in our last episode, how Zeus castrated Cronos? That striking imagery was used to symbolically convey that the bond between heaven and earth had been severed.

39:08

All of these ancient accounts that I’ve just mentioned paint a picture of the earth during the first time as a lush verdant expanse marked with serene beauty and boundless fertility and eternal vitality much like a resplendent garden and this characterization shouldn’t surprise us because when the earth was close to heaven the plant life Like the people who lived during this time was not subject

39:38

to physical entropy. And because of that, the plant life produced food in abundance. No toil and no labor was required to obtain sustenance by those who lived there.

39:50

The fifth prominent characteristic of the first time that we find highlighted in the ancient texts is the harmonious bond between people and animals. In ancient Egypt on the propylon of Khansu’s temple in Karnak, it says this of the animals, quote, The crocodile did not seize prey. The serpent did not bite in the age of the primeval gods.

40:20

Now this is a little bit hard for a lot of us living today to comprehend, but here the ancient Egyptians tell us that during Zeptepe, crocodiles did not eat other animals and snakes didn’t bite other creatures. There was no hostility or aggression or deadly primal instinct in them. In Mesopotamia in the text Enki and Ninhursag between lines 11 to 16, it says this of the animals in Dilmun.

40:51

In Dilmun, the raven was not yet cawing, the partridge not cackling. Now that’s pretty interesting because it suggests that the birds and perhaps other animals didn’t make the sounds or the roars that they do today. The text continues, quote, the lion did not slay, the wolf was not carrying off lambs, the dog had not been taught to make kids curl up.

41:21

and kids here I think refers to baby goats. In this passage, we get the same picture that we do in Egypt of docile animals, animals that don’t kill or threaten other animals. In Greece, Plato between lines 271C and 272C of the Statesman tells us something very, very interesting about the animals. He writes the following about the Grove of Poseidon, quote,

41:50

in conversation, not only with human beings, but also with animals, to do philosophy, talking both with animals and with each other and inquiring from all kinds of creatures whether any one of them had some capacity of its own that enabled it to see better in some way than the rest with respect to the gathering together of wisdom. Those who lived then were far, far more fortunate than those who live now.

42:21

If Plato’s correct here, then during this time period, people and animals could communicate in some way with one another. And that’s pretty intriguing. I think my husband would absolutely love this because he’s always wondering what his dog is thinking. In China, the Taoist sage, Zhuangzu, wrote this in the Zhuangzu of the animals during the Age of Perfect Virtue, quote,

42:51

and herds. In this condition the birds and beasts might be led about without feeling the constraint. The nest of the magpie might be climbed to and peered into. Here we learn that during the first time animals did not resist the guidance or the commands of people. They didn’t need a rope or a leash or a yoke. And if you wanted to climb a tree and take a look at a magpie nest you could. The magpie

43:22

I think it’s really interesting that Suang Tzu used the magpie in this passage, because if you know anything about magpies, they can be really vicious birds. In fact, in Australia, they’re known to actually dive bomb people while they’re riding their bikes. So Australians actually wear these special helmets with spikes on them so that the magpies don’t attack them when they’re out for a ride. The helmets are called pie proof or magpie defender helmets.

43:51

If you wanna see some video of this, I’ve linked a couple of videos of magpie attacks on innocent Aussie bike riders to the webpage for this episode. Just so you can get a feel for what I mean. The magpies are crazy. But according to Zhuangzhu, the magpies were not always like this. During the first time, they were docile. So all of our Australian listeners to the program should be thrilled to hear this.

44:21

Let’s read what else Zhuangzhu says about the animals. He writes, quote, “‘Yes, in the age of perfect virtue, men lived in common with birds and beasts, and were on terms of equality with all creatures as forming one family.'” You get the sense here of a beautiful symbiosis between people and animals during the age of perfect virtue. As an interesting little aside,

44:50

Mercea Eliade points out in his article, yearning for paradise in primitive tradition, that shaman, when they prepare for their ritual ascent to heaven, often make these really loud squawking noises that if we heard them today, we’d probably find them troublesome or even super perplexing. Eliade notes that this is actually in perfect keeping with the shaman’s attempt to restore

45:19

the paradisal state that was lost when the earth was severed from heaven. The squawking noise the shaman is making is actually him communicating in a language with the animals like was done during the first time. On page 257-258, Eliade writes, quote, It’s significant that in order to prepare for the trance, the shaman makes use of a secret language or as it is called in some regions,

45:48

language of animals. On the one hand the shaman imitates the behavior of the animals, on the other he tries to imitate their cries above all those of the birds. He speaks their language and becomes their friend and their master. We should emphasize this fact, friendship with the animals and knowledge of their language represents a paradisal syndrome. In Illo Temporae, before the fall,

46:16

Such friendship was an integral part of the primordial situation. By doing this, Eliade is telling us that the shaman quote, restores part of the paradisal situation of primordial man. And he does this by speaking with the animals. This is an important trope in several animated Disney films, especially the princess movies. In Cinderella, the birds and the animals

46:44

befriend Cinderella and they help her prepare for her happily ever after, which clearly has paradisal connotations. My favorite example of this comes from Disney’s remaking of the classic princess film Enchanted. In the movie Amy Adams, who plays the princess Giselle, wakes up to an apartment that’s in utter chaos. Clothes and trash litter the living room and the kitchen’s packed to

47:14

Princess Giselle looks around at all of the chaos and says, this just won’t do. At that moment, she walks over to the window and she throws open the window and like the shaman belts a beautiful melody, similar to the call of a bird into the morning air. And what happens? All of the animals in the city perk up and they come running and flying to her aid. And once they all arrive, they gather around her.

47:44

waiting for her command. And she looks around the room and she says, “‘All right, everyone, let’s tidy things up.'” And she claps her hands and the animals get to work, scrubbing and cleaning and turning the chaos of the apartment into a perfectly ordered urban paradise. If you’d like to see a clip of this, I’ve posted it to the website for this episode. I have no idea if the screenwriters for Enchanted

48:13

And the screenwriters for all of the other Princess movies, you know, sat around and consciously decided to use friendly talking animals in their films to mirror the characteristics of animals in the beginning, in the first time, when the earth was close to heaven. I doubt it, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t using the animals in precisely that way where the friendly animals are associated with paradisal themes like happily ever after.

48:42

royalty and kingship and order because they absolutely are. You should note in these films how the animals are usually the princess’s friends and usually help her reach her paradisal ends. Whether it’s the animals that make Cinderella’s gown for the royal ball or the animals that clean Giselle’s dirty apartment or Pascal and Maximus, a chameleon and a horse who provide comfort

49:11

to the isolated and lonely Rapunzel. I saw a comment on one of these clips that sums it up perfectly. The comment said this, quote, “‘How could Rapunzel ever doubt she was a princess? “‘Look how easily she talks to animals.'” That’s paradisal imagery if I’ve ever seen it. The arm of the ancient tradition is long and wide.

49:41

Unfortunately, I’m gonna have to leave it there. We’re in a new semester and I have a busy week ahead, but I hope that in this episode, you’re starting to get a feel for the characteristic elements of Tierra in Hilo Tempore, the earth at that time when earth was in heaven’s embrace. Whether the ancients refer to this time as Zeptepe, the first time, Dylmun, the Garden of Eden, the Grove of…

50:10

Poseidon, the Golden Age, the Kriyayuga, the Age of Righteousness, the Age of Perfect Virtue, the Every When, or the Dream Time. I hope you can see how they all shared very similar descriptions of Earth when it was wrapped in Heaven’s Embrace. The ancients tell us that during that time, the cosmic law of Rightness governed the Earth.

50:40

that there was no time the earth existed in the realm of eternity, that the earth and people were completely free from physical entropy, that there was no sickness, no disease, no aging, no death, and no pain. That the flora on the earth was also free from physical entropy. So vegetation flourished, producing flowers and trees and food in abundance.

51:09

and that the animals were tame, docile, friendly creatures who lived in complete harmony with people. If this is what it’s like to live near God, then all who abide by rightness are in for a treat. The ancients have more to say about the Tierra and Hilo Temporae, so we’ll pick up here in our next episode. Until then, I’ll leave you.

51:38

with the words of William Shakespeare, knowledge is the wing we’re with, we fly to heaven. I’m Jack Logan.

51:51

You’ve been listening to the Ancient Tradition. A Wonk Media Production.